C501 Aircraft - Thanks for the explanation. God please bring peace to their families and friends. So sad to see the weather chew up another general aviation plane. That was a substantial winter storm with some pockets of extreme precip embedded in snow/ice.
air traffic control transmission captured by LiveATC.net contains a radio call from 'one romeo gulf' reporting problems with the left hand attitude indicator. The autopilot was disconnected and the aircraft was then flown manually from the right-hand seat.
C501 Aircraft
Apparently in the area of heavy snowfall. Here is additional info on the school closure, not intending to create China commentary - school had some unpaid tax obligations and as detailed in the N501RG report above, the accident and loss of a director:https://times-herald.com/news
Radarbox Is An Ad-Supported Site And Weve Noticed That Youre Using An Ad Blocker
/2020/03/falcon-aviation-permanently-grounded Official statements identify pilot and co-pilot. That should place the instructor in the right seat. The hand flying could have been from either seat at the time of the radio discussion about failure of the left side attitude indicator and disconnection of autopilot.
Repeated icing encounters could do it. Look at the speed fluctuations. Deicing boots can only do so much. That plus confusion of captain's attitude indicator failure. I'm thinking that icing raised the stall speed significantly. "We are no longer in an attempt to look for live victims at this point so we're now recovering as much as we can from the crash site," Sanders said during the third and final briefing of the day.
This flight had two pilots to share workload, both held Instrument ratings and Mr. Sluk has C/CE-500 Type Rating along with substantial experience. Unlike the rash of recent single pilot IMC crashes, there is no reason to presume that the two men sharing the workload with full instruments in front of the right seat did not stay focused on them or lacked ability to meet the workload and counteract the vestibular illusion
effects. Buy a Dynon Pocketpanel D3 for about $900, mount it in front of you and practice flying off it. If this was a loss of control because of instruments, it could have been prevented by this wonderful little device.
N610ED provides an example with partial panel flying in icing conditions. NTSB mentioned rapidly accumulating structural icing in that accident. That one was single pilot with several instrument issues and improper wing repairs. Very much Darwin award qualifying, but interesting read, all the same.http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/12/cessna-500-citation-i-dufresne-inc_23.html
From listening to the LiveATC recording, I came up with this transcript. The recording doesn't capture ATC's transmissions, only the various flight crews on frequency. Approximately 8:55 minutes in: "And Atlanta Center five oh one romeo golf with you eleven point five climbing thirteen thousand (unintelligible)""Up to sixteen thousand
, three zero (unintelligible, baro. setting?) for one romeo golf.""Hey uh one romeo golf, we were having problems with the uh the uh left hand side ah attitude indicator which is operating off the autopilot we had to disconnect it
, fly off the right side.""Uh did you copy that last transmission, five - one romeo golf?""Now direct ---- five oh one romeo golf."At roughly ~13:14 minutes in, ATC must have queried Delta 2566 about N501RG.
The reply from Delta 2566: "Uh well yeah we're totally IMC at this point, 2566. There's nothing on TCAS." The victims were identified in a press release issued Saturday night by the Rutherford County Government as William J. Lara, Gwen S. Lara, Jennifer J. Martin, David L. Martin, Jessica Walters, Jonathan Walters, and Brandon Hannah.
Interesting 2014 writeup on Falcon School. Co-pilot's experience in aviation has business-side focus. Logbook review will answer the question of total hours, hours in type, recent flown, recent IMC flown and overall currency. Was not a pilot before getting involved with Falcon school.http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/03/falcon-flight-academy-valuable-asset.html
That's good to know, there's never been an IMC accident with two pilots flying, both experienced and instrument rated, in a partial panel emergency. So no way the pilot flying could have stalled the aircraft and the pilot monitoring could not have recovered it?
It will be interesting to see if the right seater was anything more than a 'warm body' for the appearance of 'two pilots'. Without training in the plane and training in crew coordination he was just along for the ride. Sadly, more and
more, pilots are betting their lives that the autopilot will not fail ... The longer bet is attitude indicator and autopilot. FAR 134.5 operation? RIP all. FAA Airmen:Roy G. C. SmithMedical Class: Third Medical Date: 1/2019Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT Date of Issue: 10/16/2012Ratings:PRIVATE PILOTAIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LANDINSTRUMENT AIRPLANERaymond M. SlukMedical Class: Second Medical Date: 12/2019Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT Date
of Issue: 5/6/2015Ratings:COMMERCIAL PILOTAIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LANDAIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEAAIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LANDINSTRUMENT AIRPLANEType Ratings:C/CE-500Certificate: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR Date of Issue: 6/10/2019Ratings:FLIGHT INSTRUCTORAIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE All of you are forgetting the most important fact: New pilot who had just purchased the plane.
WSB-TV interviewed the attorney who handled the sale and said he never met the buyer. The aircraft had been in storage at Falcon Field and just went through an overhaul and test flight three weeks before the crash.
It was the very first flight with that aircraft for both. One thing to go back and listen for is the very end of "...we had to disconnect it, fly off the right side." Instead of "side", there seems to be two words uttered after "right".
The two utterances sound like "front end". The hard "eye" sound in side is not there. We don't have to agree, but compare to the sound of his use of "side" earlier in that transmission if you re-listen and still think "side" is the last utterance there.
A pilot forum discussion seemed to believe it was single pilot, having to look across to use right side instrument and hand fly. Did the archive ATC recording actually include a statement that puts a person in the right seat?
"I think the situation itself is probably the most difficult part, dealing with the potential impact that this has on the family and the community at large," Sanders said. "Our crews are working very hard, very diligently, all the agencies are working really well together."
No, a hard failure of the VG14 Vertical Gyro will dump the SP200 Autopilot. Standard EQ at the time was 4 or 5 inch Sperry (Honeywell) Flight Director Capt side with 3 inch air driven Attitude Gyro FO side.
Unless Dual Flight Director Equipped, no xfer to FO side except for NAV/HSI functions, but Capt VG must be alive for Flight Director and Autopilot, thus HDG and ALT. I agree that when operating an older gen corporate aircraft (or any older aircraft lacking AHRS) the pilot should have a backup AHRS based attitude indicator, even if it is as simple as an iPad with a portable device.
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https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N501RG The last two radar hits, if correct, show the aircraft heading down in a hurry. That, added to the fact that the photos show it to have impacted inverted but relatively intact, make me believe that the pilot lost control and never recovered.
Tragic, especially for the young couple on board, but concerned this is another instance of inadequate partial panel IFR skills if right side 3 inch air driven Attitude Gyro as mentioned above and shown in panel picture was indeed operative.
In the 2017 crash also mentioned, the pilot could not fly that airplane without the autopilot which became inoperative when he also could not reprogram his Garmin on route. Only one photo, but remarkably intact, as if it was an inverted "falling leaf" type of descent.
Certainly does not look the way you would expect if there was much forward speed at contact with the trees. LOOKING AT THE FLIGHT TRACK OF THE SUBJECT AIRCRAFT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE WEATHER WAS A FACTOR DUE TO A MALFUNCTION OF THE ANTI-ICE SYSTEM.I WILL ASSUME THAT THE PIC HAD THE ANTI-ICE IN THE AUTO MODE.I WILL SELECT THE FAILURE
OF THE LEFT WING ANTI-ICE BOOT. THE WING DESIGN AND POSITION TO THE COCKPIT ADDS TO THE POSSIBILITY OF ICE BUILD UP WITHOUT A VISUAL CLUE. ONCE THAT WING STALLED, IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO REGAIN CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT. WHILE AUTO MODES.
ARE CONVENIENT THEY MUST STILL BE MONITORED TO INSURE THAT THEY ARE FUNCTIONING PROPERLY. MAINTENANCE RECORDS AND LOG BOOK MAY ALSO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS TRAGIC ACCIDENT. ERRATIC UNKNOWN AIRCRAFT BEHAVIOR SETS UP A SERIOUS STATE OF CONFUSION IN THE COCKPIT. MISINTERPRETATION MERELY COMPOUNDS THE PROBLEM.
. With no ATT REV to swap the Right seat VG to Left seat VG, one would think if no other back up is accessible, why wouldn't you declare an emergency and get yourself out of IMC as soon as possible?
Flight aware shows a flight from Falcon Field to Falcon Field on Wed. prior to this flight. I wonder if this was a test flight? Not much history Why would you risk flying IFR without a portable GPS table etc that shows attitude, gps altitude, and gps speed, and navigation which is totally independent of the aircraft systems and could save your life?
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